Notes from Megameeting 10th November 2008


BarbaraSierman Koninklijke Bibliotheek, Netherlands
BruceAmbacher UM
DavidGiaretta STFC
JohnGarrett GSFC
KatiaThomaz INPE, Brazil
MarieWaltz Center for Research Libraries
MarkConrad NARA
RobertDowns CIESIN, Columbia University
SimonLambert STFC

Some of this meeting was conducted by audio rather than chat so the transcript below does not give the full picture.

DavidGiaretta gave a summary of the face-to-face meeting in Berlin last month. This focussed on setting up guidance for the audit process, looking at the corresponding guidance for ISO 27006 as a model. Test audits were also discussed: it would be sensible to do more, taking advantage of "nearby" repositories. An initial audit team of experts will be needed; clearly the active discussion group could fill this role.

David's hope is to submit the documentation to CCSDS and ISO for the meetings in spring 2009, and to do test audits in February-April. MarkConrad was concerned that given the rate of progress this timetable is too ambitious; however, it was agreed that we will aim for it and adapt as necessary. To accelerate future discussions it was agreed to conduct them mostly by audio, with someone noting the main decisions for the wiki, and preferably recording the audio. In addition, someone should be nominated to lead the discussion each week.

The next face-to-face meeting will be held at Archives II from 11-13 February 2009. Hotels will be booked in College Park. David believes he can use some project budget for taking Europeans across for this meeting, but will need to get approval from his Project Officer.


  • DavidGiaretta to send email to the lists confirming the dates of the face-to-face meeting.
  • DavidGiaretta to put up a table to collect requirements for accommodation and flights.
  • MarkConrad to investigate booking a meeting room at Archives II.
  • MarkConrad to provide advice on hotels near Archives II.
  • DavidGiaretta to look at block booking hotels by end of November.
  • Everyone to provide comments for section B.5.
  • DavidGiaretta and SimonLambert to put restructured sections A and B2 on the wiki (these were only circulated by email previously).
  • DavidGiaretta to investigate recording of MegaMeeting audio.

Next meeting: Continue into section B5.

DavidGiaretta >> (All): So the dates for the face to face is 12 & 13 Feb plus an initial day of 11th (when we know not everyone can make it)
Simon Lambert >> (All): I have looked at 27006 in detail and just put a summary on the wiki of how it expands on 17021 - as we might need to expand the same areas.
Simon Lambert >> (All): Yes a lot of it is boilerplate
DavidGiaretta >> (All): We'll add some notes to the Wiki to clarify any other points
JohnGarrett >> (All): Yes we looked at both of those in Washington also
JohnGarrett >> (All): We also need to get timelines on all our projects for CCSDS Management system to ensure that CCSDS Management continues to approve our working on the projects.
JohnGarrett >> (All): I've taken a first pass at the Auditors Guidelines and if we base it on 17021 which seems to be the appropriate way to do auditor guidelines in ISO, then there isn't a lot of additoinal stuff needed besides the annexes.
BruceAmbacher >> (All): Do we develop a separate set of auditors or use ISO "generalists"?
JohnGarrett >> (All): I've continued to work on the document and convert to CCSDS style that I can send to Simon to see if it is helpful to him
Simon Lambert >> (All): OK, thanks John, that will be good.
DavidGiaretta >> (All): Bruce - there needs to be expertise which we need to specify
JohnGarrett >> (All): We would use separate set, but follow some general rules suplemented by some specific rules.
JohnGarrett >> (All): Yes we need experts in digital preservation
BruceAmbacher >> (All): yes
DavidGiaretta >> (All): Sorry for all the talking - we'll try to add some words to the chat log!!
BruceAmbacher >> (All): Based on TRAC, I agree with David that a lot of progress will be accomplished in the face to face
Barbara Sierman >> (All): Skype might help?
BruceAmbacher >> (All): Another way to speed this up is to assign sections to one person to write, then accept/reject/modify
JohnGarrett >> (All): Fine with me to use audio most of the time
DavidGiaretta >> (All): Katia - how about you. You can use chat if you want to also.
BruceAmbacher >> (All): We can assign someone each week to take minutes and post them
Barbara Sierman >> (All): I think the discussions were fruitful, so i would vote for audio
KatiaThomaz >> (All): now it is better but not very good
Marie Waltz >> (All): I'm ok with audio, though I won't always be able to talk
KatiaThomaz >> (All): sometimes your voice desappear
DavidGiaretta >> (All): It depends upon whether you can hear. 
DavidGiaretta >> (All): We might also be able to record the audio
Barbara Sierman >> (All): or speak
Marie Waltz >> (All): I think we should definitely record if we can
KatiaThomaz >> (All): this will be good
DavidGiaretta >> (All): So shall we try to use audio and record it if at all possible? 
Barbara Sierman >> (All): and notes?
Mark Conrad >> (All): Ok. We will need good notetaking as well.
JohnGarrett >> (All): I think notes recording agreements would be good.  Although most of what is decided should show up in text of document on wiki
BruceAmbacher >> (All): Notes as in full minutes or just major points?
DavidGiaretta >> (All): I guess Simon and I can make initial notes on the WIki - brief ones recording agreements. And we should also follow Bruce's suggestion and put someone on the spot each week
Barbara Sierman >> (All): major points
JohnGarrett >> (All): major points is enough
Marie Waltz >> (All): Yes, only major points are necessary to record
KatiaThomaz >> (All): ok
DavidGiaretta >> (All): Ok major points - which would include agreements
DavidGiaretta >> (All): Sounds good.
Mark Conrad >> (All): Yes. Without the agreements we won't be able to properly edit the document.
Marie Waltz >> (All): That is great.
BruceAmbacher >> (All): 9 to 6 is my memory.  RLG provided coffee
BruceAmbacher >> (All): Mark, we got a van to pick up many at the same hotel
BruceAmbacher >> (All): College Park will be less expensive but DC has all the capital attractions
Marie Waltz >> (All): I think the inauguration should be a consideration, as its only a week from then
JohnGarrett >> (All): I prefer College Park.  I'd prefer not to travel down, but that is personal choice
BruceAmbacher >> (All): Inauguration is 1/20
JohnGarrett >> (All): Yes there is
BruceAmbacher >> (All): But there may still be lots of job seekers.
Marie Waltz >> (All): Its both
Barbara Sierman >> (All): Should we take part A next time and make comments on it
JohnGarrett >> (All): I would like to finish off B
DavidGiaretta >> (All): Can we finish B first
Barbara Sierman >> (All): John yes of course but as we did not do anything on A, we should adress that too I think
BruceAmbacher >> (All): Everyone should review and comment on all of B5.
JohnGarrett >> (All): Yes I agree
BruceAmbacher >> (All): B5 is only 4 points and they have little comment now.
JohnGarrett >> (All): Can we look at them now
DavidGiaretta >> (All): Sure
Mark Conrad >> (All): Ok. Everyone review and comment on B.5. for next time.
DavidGiaretta >> (All): OK
KatiaThomaz >> (All): i did all my comments
DavidGiaretta >> (All): We also wanted a proposal for restructuring in a hierarchical way
KatiaThomaz >> (All): sorry, I have to leave you now. have a nice week and bye.
Marie Waltz >> (All): That reminds me that this study done by Neil Beagrie might have some relevance for us here:
JohnGarrett >> (All): Bye
Marie Waltz >> (All): Fine
JohnGarrett >> (All): Yes
Barbara Sierman >> (All): yes
BruceAmbacher >> (All): Yes if I can remember how to edit
Simon Lambert >> (All): ok
DavidGiaretta >> (All): Great - so ACTIONS:
DavidGiaretta >> (All): ACTION: DG to email lists about dates of meeting
Mark Conrad >> (All): Everyone to provide comments for B.5.
DavidGiaretta >> (All): ACTION: DG to put up table to collect requirements for accomodation/flights
Mark Conrad >> (All): I will begin investigating the room for February.
DavidGiaretta >> (All): ACTION: DG/SL to put up restructured A and B2 on Wiki
Barbara Sierman >> (All): power supply!
BruceAmbacher >> (All): They can set up an internet (they did in the past for this type meeting)
JohnGarrett >> (All): I tyhink projection would be good.  Internet if available, but not critical
JohnGarrett >> (All): Yes and I think that helps to make progress
DavidGiaretta >> (All): ACTION: mark to book room - preferably at Archives II
JohnGarrett >> (All): Thanks, Mark
DavidGiaretta >> (All): ACTION: MC to provide pointer to hotels near archives II
DavidGiaretta >> (All): ACTION: DG to look at block booking hetels by end of Nov
Marie Waltz >> (All): groan
BruceAmbacher >> (All): bye
Marie Waltz >> (All): bye
Mark Conrad >> (All): Bye for now!
Barbara Sierman >> (All): bye
Simon Lambert >> (All): bye

-- SimonLambert - 10 Nov 2008

Topic revision: r1 - 2008-11-10 - SimonLambert
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